[TAG] Hydrogen fuel (non-Linux)

[Jason Creighton]

On Sat, 29 May 2004 02:29:19 +0100, 
Thomas Adam <thomas_adam at bonbon.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 27 May 2004 15:21:41 -0600
> Jason Creighton <androflux at softhome.net> wrote:
> > And before I realized this, I had believed that a utopian society was
> > possible. If you had asked me point-blank "Do you believe that a
> > utopian society is possible?" I would have said no. At one level, I
> > knew that was impossible. But in my heart of hearts, I thought "If
> > only this country was put under proper management...".
> 
> Sorry, Jason -- it is not going to happen. I watch America from the
> outside, and all I see is a front-spokesman, and a "leader" who is
> ridiculed at every turn. Some of the idioms in speech as well as his
> actions (such as falling off a bike) really do amuse me. But it is worth
> remembering that at the end of the day, the real power does not lie with
> Bush per se, but rather his advisors, since it is they that really run
> the country. Let's face it, Bush has enough trouble [1] trying to wipe
> his own arse.

Actually, the real power in the US lies with the people. In one election
cycle, things could be turned around. It's not too late by any means.
But nobody cares. At the end of the day, the majority of US voters only
seem to care which canidate has the best ads.

(BTW, does "Bush has enough trouble [1] ..." mean there should be a
footnote? Where?)

> But your linkage of utopia with governments is going to be a tenuous one
> always;

*My* linkage? Didn't I just say it was impossible?

> since even _if_ such a utopia were possible with nations it would only
> ever be at a political level. You cannot expect people to just turn
> the other cheek within a reasonable amount of time and say "there,
> there, I forgive you". There is prejudice within our blood -- it is
> what we are.

I agree. I do not expect people to do that.

> > But even under the best of management, there would still be injustice.
> > People would still exploit others for personal gain. People would
> > still kill each other, still steal. No amount of government programs
> > can change that. No amount of money thrown at the problem can change
> > the basic nature of people.
> 
> Precisely which is why our actions will change us -- but it is society
> as a whole that will change who we are, and the values we believe in.
> You have to remember that religion plays a _very_ important part for a
> lot of people.. [skip massive text here about that, but it is worthy of
> a mention], and consequently people use this both as a comforter and as
> an excuse.

Being a Christian, I would natrally agree with the statement that
religion plays a very important part for a lot of people.

I don't quite grok what you're saying here. What do we mean when we say
"society" here? The beliefs of the people (persons?[1]) of a country as
a whole?

[1] Lets see....ISTR hearing that "people" would be a people group,
"peoples" would be multiple people groups, and "persons" would be the
plural of "person" (obviously). So what would be correct here?

> > Some things can only be justified by the fact that anything else would
> > be worse. War is probably the most notable example. It's not good; It
> > is, in fact, a great evil. It's just that sometimes (very rarely)
> > everything else is worse.
> 
> Evil is just...evil. There is no point trying to turn it into a
> hierarchy. But you are right, war is by no means the correct way to go
> about solving issues.

Well, not the correct way, but sadly, sometimes the only way. For
instance, I can't imagine things being better than they are now if the
US had not entered WWII.

As for the current war in Iraq, well, it seems....fishy. Yes, we're
*positive* he has WMDs. No wait, make that WMD programs! We meant
programs! Just 'cause our best intel said we'd find WMDs here, and we
haven't, doesn't mean anything at all!

I just wish people could say "Look, we know he *had* WMDs at some point,
because he used them. Our intel said he had tons of WMDs still. We were
wrong. We don't know what happened, but we're gonna find out what went
wrong and fix it so this doesn't happen again."

But no, it's either that Bush is a liar, or just wait, we'll find those
WMDs sometime. No middle ground, it seems.

Jason Creighton