[TAG] Work In Progress
sluggoster at gmail.com
Thu Nov 10 09:06:11 MSK 2005
On 11/9/05, Jimmy O'Regan <jimregan at o2.ie> wrote:
> Mike Orr wrote:
> > On 11/9/05, Jimmy O'Regan <jimregan at o2.ie> wrote:
> >>Mike Orr wrote:
> >>>On 11/9/05, Jimmy O'Regan <jimregan at o2.ie> wrote:
> >>>>Mike Orr wrote:
> >>>>>But still, I hope UFC wipes WWE off the screen.
> >>>>I doubt it, from what little I've seen of UFC. WWE is... a soap opera
> >>>>with fighting (uh... better fights :), UFC just looks like a bar brawl.
> >>>It can look like a brawl if you don't understand what they guys are
> >>>doing, but it's quite organized. It (pankration) is a combination of
> >>>wrestling and kickboxing. One guy puts the other guy in standard
> >>>submission holds until he taps out (symbolically gives up). The
> >>Well, any time I saw it the rounds ended after one put another in a
> >>submission hold and punched 'til the referee sent him back to his corner.
> > That is how it often ends. I wouldn't call that a bar brawl. I don't
> > know about the referee "sending him back to his corner". That might
> > happen on a technicality or to investigate an apparent injury, but I
> > don't think it's routine. The ref will move the fighters if they're
> > too close to the edge of the ring, but he usually keeps them in their
> > same relative positions.
> I meant at the end of the round/fight.
Actually, both BJJ and UFC were more brutal than they are now. BJJ
was 'vale tudo' (anything goes), and UFC didn't have rounds. But they
had to tone it down to avoid getting it banned in the US. In Brazil
you can have a full-on fight in the street but in the US you'd get
arrested for that, so there's a difference in culture. But I've heard
that even Brazil has tightened things up the past couple years. So it
kind of parallels the Greek experience of more brutal to less brutal.
I don't know how old the videos are you saw.
Another thing is that even if you wonder why somebody would want their
face pounded, those guys live for it. At the amateur level they're
not paid, so you really have to want to be there.
> >>IIRC, there are two Gracie school ATM (family fued).
> > ATM != bank machine?
> "At the moment"
> > There are several families of schools with different Gracie names. I
> > don't know about a feud.
> Well... maybe it's resolved now. I read that when they (well, some of
> them) were in Sepultura's "Attitude" video, which was 8 or 9 years
> ago--I just didn't think until now about how long ago that was.
I don't follow the Gracies closely, so they could have had a feud for
all I know. I was at one Gracie school for a short time, but it was
pretty much just a franchise name. I attend an independent BJJ school
now, but only because it's a good place to learn submission skills,
not because I'm interested in BJJ per se.
> > There's a book you might like, _The Machine_ by Ian Freeman. He's a
> > British boxer/bouncer turned UFC fighter.
> I think I've read an article or two of his, though most of the prominent
> British martial arts writers have been bouncers at some stage.
He's kind of arrogant in the book but it's still a good read. He grew
up in Sunderland which I guess is a rough place. He said they had bar
fights every night, with people coming just fight the bouncers. I
found it hard to believe but he writes, "I know you don't believe it
but it's true, I swear. It was much rougher in the 80s." I couldn't
understand how the police could visit a bar several times a week (or
even once a month) and not have its liquor license pulled. Maybe the
laws are more strict here. The bouncers in England seem to be much
bigger on average than the ones here, but maybe the problems are
bigger. (All those football fans.) I saw so many bars with two huge
bodybuilders outside the door. My thoughts were, (1) where do they
find so many of those guys? (2) does it really take two to deter
people at the door? (3) Why isn't one of them inside watching the
joint since that's where most of the problems will be? Our bars just
have one average-looking guy out front, and the only reason he's there
is because the state insists he check the ages on IDs. Unless the bar
is large, he's also the security guy.
Mike Orr <sluggoster at gmail.com> or <mso at oz.net>
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